art for all

How do I find time for art?

• Sketchbook Skool • Season 5 • Episode 79

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Welcome to the 5th  season of Art for All, the Sketchbook Skool podcast.
Join Danny Gregory and this season's cohost, Jill Badonsky, as they discuss creative blocks and challenges and how to get it together, get inspired, and get to work.
Today we discuss:
Are you waiting until you quit your job or retire to find the time to make art?  Are you too busy to de-stress with some art-making? Do you feel guilty when you take the time to draw? Let's talk about these issues and come up with some solutions to make art a regular part of your life, no matter how busy you are.
Each episode is recorded in front of a live audience that YOU can join each Wednesday at 10 am PT on YouTube.
Bring your questions about the creative process, blocks, challenges, and problems.
Art for All is also available as a video podcast on the Sketchbook Skool channel on YouTube

Get your free ebook and essays at DannysEssays.com



Danny:

Thank you. Hi, and welcome to Art for All. This is Schedule School podcast. I'm Danny Gregory. I'm joined here by Jill Bodansky and we are ready to podcast. This is the second episode in this new season where we are experimenting with a new. And continuing to hone and develop it. And the format is we take your questions and we try to answer them, uh, questions about your creativity, um, and today's theme is time or the lack thereof. What are your thoughts about this Jill? Time.

Jill:

Don't get me started. We don't have enough time for how much I wanna say about it.. . Danny: It's true. Yeah. I mean, so we, we will get into a deeper conversation about it, but basically the way that that this works is pe we're recording this live on YouTube, so we have people in our studio audience who are gonna have questions about. Time or about anything really. If they're completely irrelevant and um, offensive, then we'll ignore them. But if they are dead on, we will say, that's a brilliant question and we'll try to answer it. If it's too brilliant, we may not be able to answer it. There are limits, I think, right to our abilities, at least to mine. So, yeah. Um, so we are going to go through a view of a couple of little. Things. We're gonna read some stuff, we're gonna do some exercises, and we're gonna plunge into this problem of time. And then later on in the show, we are gonna bring in questions from the audience. And, uh, if you li, if you're listening to this and you said, wait a minute, how am I, you can ask, as you're listening to the podcast, you can just simply ask a question aloud. You might be walking your dog, you think of a question, ask it aloud. And we will probably answer it for you, if not, tune in next week. But um, yeah. But if you'd like to have your question be included, then come join us live on YouTube on Wednesdays at 10:00 PM Pacific. All right. Um, so I think we're ready to begin our first thing, which is Right Calisthenic of the week. Unless you have something you'd like to add before then. No, I, I think let's just launch right into the calisthenic and just review. If you weren't here last week, this is, um, an imaginative question and those of you watching are invited to answer. Danny does not know what it is, and it's, it's really kind of far out there because we wanna stretch your imagination and get out of the mundane. So the, the question this week

Danny:

is, wait, hold on a second. Hold on a second. Okay, there you go. Is you can,

Jill:

what is the first line and your best selling memoir about your life as a clock?

Danny:

Hmm. Best selling. Best selling memoir? Yeah. Um, okay. Um, clock, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Um, I don't know. Um, uh, I feel like I'm running out of time, so let's begin. There you go. All right. Now I know you guys can do better, so feel free to. To do better. It was pretty good. Yeah. What's your answer?

Jill:

Uh, give me a second. That's not bad.

Danny:

Mm-hmm.. . I guess it's a short memoir. Yeah.. So why do we do these creative calisthenic?

Jill:

We do them because people don't ask these questions on a regular basis. And that's what creativity is. It's getting out of the regular basis and believe it or not, been doing it for 10 years on Facebook. And I see people's creativity expanding when they're answering these questions cuz it's, it's called fluency of thought. It's associa. It's puns. And as much as sometimes we don't like puns, they are creative, they're, they're a different way of looking at things, and that's creativity.

Danny:

That's true. Why do we groan though?

Jill:

because we didn't come up with it. I don't know., Danny: maybe it's true. Cause you've never grown at your own pun, you've always grown at other people's. It's true. You, you think your own puns are brilliant. Yeah.. I do. Anyway,. Danny: It's true. So, um, yeah, so we've, we've got, uh, so mine here, uh, oh. J Jay's putting them up on screen. So here's mine says, I feel like I'm running out of time. So let's begin. And yours was, give me a second. Where is it? Uh, yes. Give me a second. So good. So you guys watching share yours and we will get to that in a second. So let's move on to talking about block a week. We'll come back to the calisthenics later on after you guys have had a chance to, to Colette Calisthenic size and share where we are. But to now, we're gonna ship to our next segment, which is Block of the Week. Block of the Week. So, um, yes, our block of the week, which is time, not enough time. So I'll, I'll try and articulate the problem. The way I hear it from people a lot, which is, I'm really busy. Um, when I retire, I'll make art or I'm really busy and one, I'm gonna take a, a workshop some weekend and do it. Or I really, I need to set up a studio and I just don't have the, the time to get into that. Right now, I'm really busy at work. I've got a lot of stuff going on at my house. Um, that's one aspect of it, which is simply where, where would I possibly find the. There are other aspects of it, which we'll get to, but I think that that's a good place to start. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I hear too. I, I, I think it's a complex problem. I don't think people realize sometimes that there, there's more time than they think. to get to their, their creativity. But it's, it's easier to do some of the responsibilities we have than to face the demons and the fear and everything that comes up. And of course, there's, there's real reasons why we, we don't have time, but I think there's ways around it.

Danny:

Yeah. I mean, how do you get around it? I mean, Angie says, the day gets away from me. You know? So what does that suggest? That suggests that. Push waiting till later in the day to make art, which could be a, a, a thing to sort of debate also, which is, when is the appropriate time to make art in your day? You know, is it, is it the last priority? Is it the relaxing thing at the end of the day? Um, so I think that that's a question to ask yourself, which is, are you actually scheduling the time that you're gonna spend on making art? Are you, are you, are you saying. I'll, you know, I'll do it after I've done everything else. In which case are you

Jill:

prioritizing it? Right? Because I, I think if you're here, art is a priority or a value, and if you're putting it off, you're putting it off because it's, it can be hard and. You'll get cranky. I, I think we're here. We also need to give ourselves permission to get to it because we sometimes think it's frivolous. And like I said, if, if you're here, it's important, and if you're not doing it, you're gonna get cranky.. I, I think it's a, a sacred part of our, our existence. It's something we're, we're entitled to, so there's ways of prioritizing it and one is realizing that it can be done in between things. I had a student in my coaching program and she wanted to do art, and she said she's never getting to it. That the day is getting away from her. And I, I asked her if she. How she gets to work and she says she, she drives to work and I asked her what she does when she's driving and she said she's listening to the news and driving is a great place to actually get your creative gears going. I don't know about you, but I get lots of ideas. when I'm driving. And it's, it's not the tangible part of art, but if, if you're thinking about the news or you're thinking about not getting to it, you're wasting time where you could be asking yourself the question, what do I love about my art? What might I do next? And those are, those are prerequisites to wanting to do it.

Danny:

Yeah. I think that that's, I think that that's true. I think we, I think we don't really know. art's value is in our life. So it's really hard to set it, set it as a priority because you say, a, I may not be good at it, so therefore it's an opportunity for me to beat myself up. Maybe I should defer that. Um, you might also not really understand what it's, it's value is, uh, to, you know, your, your health, for instance. Mm-hmm., you know, you might say, um, if you, if you, if you've had a stressful day., you might come home and say, I need, I, I, I can't be bothered to deal with that. I need to unwind, so therefore I need to have a glass of wine and watch, you know, um, sort of mindless tv. And I can't, I can't, can't, you know, have a, another struggle. And I see that my art making is just an opportunity for struggle and difficulty. So therefore, I'm gonna have to, you know, wait until I have this peaceful time where there's no stress and then I'll be able to make my heart. But if you look at it as a de-stressor and you say it's kind of like going for a run or it's like, um, you know, meditating or doing yoga or those kinds of things, if you could put it into that category and maybe its prioritization will change. To me,

Jill:

it's, it's like the balance. There's the harsh reality of politics and news and, and all of that kind of thing out there, and I'm protected from that when I go into my art and I have real low standards for doodling and it., if it's time to watch television, I'm doodling while I'm watching television. Mm-hmm., which makes me feel less guilty about watching it. And sometimes the best things come out when I'm, when I'm watching television, usually not drinking wine. Tequila used to be the, the drink of choice, . But I think, I think you gotta lower the pressure around your art, so you., you can just let it be there for your relaxation and balance, right? For the rest of the

Danny:

world. Yeah. Yeah. I think if you look at your art as a chore or as a, something that you feel guilty about or something that is gonna make you feel bad, right? I mean, it can make you feel bad cuz you can say, you know, I'm, I'm judging myself really harshly, so therefore, um, it's not something I'm looking forward to doing. But, you know, and I, I think another big issue is do you have the right to do this? Mm-hmm., right? I mean, that's, that's another big, big, big issue around art making, which is I feel guilty about doing it because I have all these other obligations, obligations to other people. Um, and I'm just, you know, if I, if I take away time from my family, from my job by making art, I, I feel bad about. Well, that's

Jill:

where I think people might be using that. Sometimes it's true, but sometimes it's, it's an excuse. It's, it's easier to do the responsibilities than it is for us to, to deal with how we feel about our art. But if we, I know last night I got really pa I was supposed to be doing my taxes and

Danny:

that sounds like fun.

Jill:

That was, that was not sounding like fun to me. So, Started experimenting with this cow. And I think when you get passionate about what you do, I mean just like, oh wow, now let me take this technique and apply it to rabbits and cats. Um, so the fever was there, and when the fever is there, it's, it's like you're having a love affair and. we make time for passion. So if you get excited about it, and I think you get excited about it when your own voice is starting to manifest itself and you wanna start finding that, and, and I mean that's one of the exciting parts of art is, is seeing what you come up with and, and where it goes and how much you can do.

Danny:

Yeah, and I think, I think we also think of art as being, um, a thing you do alone. So, you know, if, if you, if you think to yourself, well, I should be spending time with my spouse or my loved ones, and instead I'm going off in a corner and I'm kind of doing this thing, that's just for me. But that isn't to say that you couldn't involve other people in doing it. You couldn't all sit around and draw and talk while you're, while you're doing it, you know, it can, it can become something that's, Social, right. It's gonna be like playing a game. I think that

Jill:

works really well. I think it let's do things side by side. Um, it creates this groundedness. I also think if you, if you make things for those people, they're, they're not as, as upset about it and making you a card here, or this is for you. I'm dedicating this to you, but yeah, I think especially with children, , I think a lot of women think, you know, I should be spending time with children. But what you're doing if you're working with your art is you're showing them the value of creativity. So when they get to a certain age, they, they understand that that's an important part of their life too.

Danny:

Yeah, I, I think a lot of people in the chat have been talking also about multitasking, you know, so like Lata says, I'm doodling and coloring right now, or Robin says, I draw pictures of the talking heads on the tube. Um, so, you know, I think that that's, that's a great solution, which is just to say, I'll hang out with you. I'll watch TV with you. I'll have a sketchbook on my, on my lap, and I'm just doing this thing. So that's certainly a way of doing it. Um, and getting in practice, I mean, that may not be your entire art making, but at least it's something Right. You know? Mm-hmm., it may be different than when you want to do something really serious and really learn a technique and you might get, but you know, you could have a, a little cart with all your art supplies in it that you pull up next to the couch and it has your sketchbook there, and you put the remote control on top of your sketchbook. So as soon as you pick up the remote, , you know, you can do that. I mean,

Jill:

I, yeah, I think setting up space like that, multitasking. I, I listen to podcasts and I think that helps me, but I think sometimes the first step is setting up your space, you know, the night before, making it easy for you to get to the next day, having your paintbrush out. Have even revisiting things you've done that you like. I. Contagious. It's like, oh, I like this. I, I might add to it. I might do another rendition of it. And that makes it easier to, to find the time to get to

Danny:

it. Yeah. I mean, I think another thing is also, um, Being realistic about your expectations around the art making. Mm-hmm.. So, in other words mm-hmm., a lot of times we feel like, whoa, I'm gonna take up oil painting and I'm gonna need, you know, putting on a smock and setting up an easel and stretching a canvas and having all my space and all that, you know. But you could also just say, I have a little sketchbook, I have a pen. That's it. And I'm just gonna do a little bit of stuff. It doesn't all have to be a huge. Production, you know, and I think that that's often what we think is, I don't have time to set it up, or if I set it up, I'm gonna then have to dismantle it all and put it all away. You know, I have a couple of these little mini carts they take up about, you know, a foot and a half square, and you just put all your art supplies in it and you wheel it into a corner, and then when you need it, you wheel it out and it's all there, it's ready to go. So it doesn't have to be a big thing. You can just work on your lap. That, to me, was the key to my integrating art into my daily life. Was making it sort of the right size that it fits into the size of my day, my life. So I can have a little sketchbook that I can literally put in the pocket of my jeans and a pen that I put in my front pocket. And wherever I go, I'm theoretically ready to make art. So if there's a five minute proc thing while I'm waiting for the bus, or I'm eating lunch by myself and I want to draw while I'm doing it, there's just all these little increments that you can find to just fit it. without it becoming a big show, you know, without, without you having to retire to do it.

Jill:

Yeah. And you know, for women, putting it in your purse, having sketchbooks in your purse as well, and also learning techniques where you don't feel like you have to be perfect. You know, I, I teach those of you who have taken my classes, no, I teach a technique where you're looking at what you're drawing, but you're not looking at, you're looking at the subject, but you're not looking at what you're drawing. and after a while, this gives you the freedom to do things really quickly and not have to worry. And the energy of it is, is really appealing, at least to

Danny:

me. So you can draw while you're driving to work. Um,

Jill:

I, no don't do that. Draw while driving.. Danny: If you're listening to not take out your sketchbook. yes, indeed. But, but I think, you know, It all kind of emanates from this understanding of what art is for us. Why do we want to do it so that then we can understand? Because, cuz I think there's, I think a lot of times we think, well, I, you know, I, I I need to be an artist or I need make stuff that I can sell. Or I need to express some profound thought in it. But if you can look at art as just a simple thing that's part of your life, like doing yoga or, you know, um, walking your dog or a lot of other things that is kind of part of our lives that we also multitask, right? You walk your dog, you listen to a podcast, you know, you do some yoga and you know, it's, it's a, a way of healing your day. I think another part of it is also thinking about it as self. that this is something that you need in your life. You need to, um, you are less of a person. Somehow your, your life is less without it, as opposed to it being something that's added on that's a luxury. Think of it as a necessity. You know, and think about all the things that you do in your day. That are, you know, little moments just for you and th this falls into that category as opposed to it being some kind of massive indulgence. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, do you remember Steven Covey's. Seven Habits of highly effective People. I do. I think this is quadrant number three, which is essential, but not urgent. It's essential, especially if you're listening to this or watching this, this, this is important to you. It's like medicine, and if you're not doing it, it really can affect your health. I've seen people's health turn around when they started getting to their art instead of putting it off so much. So I think the essentialness of it is something that's gonna give you permission to get to it and not let you know where's the day going if it's getting away from you without art. And if you're cleaning your counter a lot, I know another , which I w I should clean mine more. But it's, but you know, at the end of your life where you're gonna go, I'm really glad. A clean counter or you one of these souvenirs of this is the evolution of my art and here you go, world, do what you want with it,

Danny:

It's, it's true. And, and I think, I mean, if you want to get sort of, um, technical and process oriented about this thing, I would say try writing down in one day all the things that you do, like literal. Got up, peed, brushed teeth, you know, did whatever. And if you have a list of all those things, a, a really insidious thing is our phones, right? So our phones are always, our phones are always finding ways to fill the little increments in our lives, you know, so you are, you know, you could be sitting and having conversation with an old friend and you pull out your phone to., you know, Facebook, there's just all these little ways that it, it, it VAs itself into your day and says you. Hey, you got a minute. Do this. Why? Because it's giving us a dopamine rush. Every time we check it, it's like, oh, I'm wondering what I'm missing. Oh, that was cool. So you're doing that. You can have that same dopamine rush from drawing, you know, from making art. You can have that little thing if, or if you're writing, you know, if you're a writer, you can just have an idea, write it down. It can take one minute, you know? Right. So, so I think if, if you, if you analyze where you're spending your time, You'll see how much of it is, is something you can change. You know, it is something that is not essential. And maybe you could replace some of those non-essentials with this thing that is, as you say, essential but not urgent. I love that, that that framework

Jill:

or the, the precursors for it. I, I kind of addicted to dopamine myself. It's, and I, I decided I needed to start changing that and cuz I missed daydream. daydreaming is where I come up with some of the fantastical weird drawings that I come up with. And when you're filling the space with social media, you don't get that. So I decided I'm gonna daydream for a little bit first of what I wanna do next, or I'm gonna go look at other people's art. and get inspired by all of the different kinds of art. Not compare myself, which is really easy to do, but rather go and ask the question, what is one thing that can inspire my art by what I'm looking at? And then again, it, it becomes this, this creative foreplay. It's, it's like, What I wanna do this now. Um, so give me something to draw and, and sketch it out and allow it to be a crappy first draft. I think that's where some people will put things off and put things off because it's not gonna be really good at the start. It's

Danny:

ironic though, isn't it? Cuz we spend a lot of time doing crappy things. You read some stupid clickbait thing, you read some. Listicle. I mean, there's all this kind of crap that's out there on the internet. It's that we, that will make time for, but then when it comes to art, you know, it's like, well, you know, I don't, I don't know if it's gonna be, you know, what if I waste some time doing it? Um, yeah, I mean that's,

Jill:

that is such a good point. It's just, it's goes back to you saying where are you spending your time? And, and if, if you are getting that dopa. Do a sketch first and then go check out who Andy Sandberg is married to.. Who

Danny:

is he married to, by the way?

Jill:

Oh, he's married to this heart player who's like the best heart player in the world,

Danny:

so Well, um, yeah, so I'm just, um, quickly looking through, seeing if there's. There's a lot of great comments. We we're trying to sort of multitask while looking at the comments while having our conversation, but, um, you know, I think that, uh, and I have to check my Facebook too, so if you got, if you could just hold on for one second while I do this , um, come back.. Um, so, alright, let's, let's, um, move on now because we, we've spent a certain amount of time doing this. We're trying, we're trying to keep this under an. Under two hours. We're trying to watch the time. Right, exactly. Um, so let's move on to the book, the book break. Um, and I think you're gonna go first, right?

Jill:

Okay. Are you gonna play any music or anything

Danny:

before this? Oh yeah, of course. Okay. I don't do anything about music, but you guys who are in the audience, think about your questions. What is a question that you would like to ask us? And, um, we will come to that after the book. So we will do that. Now, here's the book break. Book break. Here's Jill, by

Jill:

the way, Danny is on the piano and I'm on the drums. So we, we are doing that ourselves. So this is boom, this is . This is from this book, which is a take. On an owner

Danny:

manual for, I, I can't see it. I'm on a, I'm on a podcast. Oh,

Jill:

that's right. You're on your podcast. The Muse is in an owner's manual to your creativity, and this is from the section of gizmos for your creativity. And there's one called Making Time, and this is summon up your animus. Do you know what that is? The word animus? Do you know what that means, Dan? I don't. How are you? I don't. It means your masculine side. In the interest of time, I invite you to think of animus in terms of, and I must make time for my creativity because no one else is gonna flip and do it for me. In fact, in most cases, people will routinely steal your time. Deciding to tap into the animus can draw on your forces of ambition, confidence, and tenacity. All important traits in claiming creative time for yourself. Feeling apologetic about it. Some of you might better relate to this advice. Get some balls, tennis balls would work. Write affirmations on them like I will short shop my time with non-creative actions. Love 30. Leave them outside your door. Beach balls are soft enough to throw at people who open the door even when you've asked them nicely for some time alone, but you mostly need ball. and the an must be brave kind. So be inspired by artists who do protect their time, say with animus, if they can do it, I can you can You. Taking time for yourself teaches others that. Making time for creativity is important and essential. If you wanna be an artist. Clarissa Estee Pen. Cola mentions in women who run with the wolves, an artist who does have ball, and they have this sign on their door. I am working today. I am not receiving visitors, and I know this. You think this doesn't mean you because you're my banker agent or best friend, but it does hang signs on your door if that works for you.

Danny:

I like a lot of your ideas. There it is., do people feel uncomfortable about that? About being, like, if you feel sort of vulnerable and imposter syndrome about around your art making, it's hard to have balls, right? It's hard to be, to be, you know, committed and self-protective and, and, you know, forthright if you're feeling like, I don't have the right to do this. Yeah.

Jill:

I, I think we give our power away when it comes to creativity. We, we are apologetic or. I, I think it was, um, Elizabeth Gilbert who said, sneak time with your creativity, just like you would sneak time with a lover. And, but I, I do think we need to let people that it's know that it's important that if we are doing. our art or our writing or whatever it is you do creatively. We're nicer people. We, we will be nicer. And it's true. I know when I get that dose of creativity, I really, I am a nicer person and my boyfriend's watching and he will, he will, uh, validate

Danny:

that it's sort of sedative. Yeah. You come out of it and you're just, you're mellow and you're, you know, you feel like you, I mean, I always feel like it's like, Having a spa day or something like that, or having a massage, you know, you come out totally. It's just like a Yeah, yeah. You're steam, you're relaxed. So, yeah. Alright, so I'm gonna read something too. Um, you can main, meanwhile we should, JJ is starting to collect some of your questions, which is great, and, um, We, uh, will answer them coming up soon. So feel free to an, to ask some more. But, um, so I'm gonna read you from a book, whoop, lemme get rid of that. I'm gonna read you to a, from a book that I wrote a while ago, called Me Time, which says Perfect. Seems appropriate. Right? So what this book is, is I decided that my life and my day was so jam-packed. With stuff that I was doing, you know, from literally the second I was getting up, um, all the way through, you know, going to work and coming home. Just everything was, I was doing it, not, not doing it just for other people. I don't wanna make it seem like, oh, poor me. But really it was just,. That was really what, what motivated and, and pushed me through the day was meetings with clients or, you know, doing stuff with my family. And it was just a lot of stuff. So I decided that I would take an hour in which I would, um, basically just do my own thing. And that hour though, couldn't come take away from anybody else. It would have to be. just mine, you know, just, just an additional hour. And I decided that what I would do is I would sacrifice an hour of sleep. I would go to bed maybe a little tiny bit earlier, but I was going to get up one hour earlier than normal, and I was gonna try this for a week or so, a couple weeks. I forget how long I did it for. And what I would do in that week is I, I made a list of all the things that I'd been putting off doing and, and they were things like, um, I wanted to read Leaves of Graphs by Walt Whitman. I wanted to play the Harmonic. I wanted to watch Cspa for some reason.. Um, I wanted to see what it would be like to go to an early morning church service. I wanted to write somebody a real proper letter. Um, I wanted to walk down my street in one direction for, uh, Half an hour and walk back and see what kind of adventures I would have at six in the morning. I wanted to learn to knit. I wanted to, um, watch ESPN cuz I never watched sports and I thought that would be a worthwhile thing. Um, so, uh, I wanted to draw 30 things that I own and haven't used in a year. So this book was basically me take going through various things and trying them out. But I wrote a little explanation at the beginning about. Planning this hour and what it was gonna be like. So I want to just read the very opening. Um, during the introduction, it's a thing called, this won't be easy. I'm not a morning person. My wife gets up and chirps with the birds, but I grumble and grunt about like a bear emerging from his layer in April. I need caffeine. I need quiet. I need a bit more shut. I managed to get through my morning ritual because it's just that a mechanized, polished routine that doesn't take much brain activity. How observant. How involved, how alive will I be at the crack of dawn? I consider giving myself a different hour, say 8:00 PM

to 9:

00 PM but no, that would be borrowed time, an hour I'd be taking away from someone else, from my wife, my son, my friends, my social self. And besides the last hours at the, but end of the day are shop. They lack the energy and potential of the early morning. They're fueled by reserves running on fumes, and whatever long-term influence they'll have on me will be diluted by slumber. The next morning, I'll just be groggy and dull no matter what I did the night before, starting the day off by paying myself first while add an effervescence that will keep a bounce in my stride all day. I have so much to be grateful for so much. I could appreciate a whole lot more, so many ways to better myself as a.. And though this project seems like a minor step, I'm very excited about how it will enrich my life. It'll be a great journey if I can get used to the jet lag. So that was what I said to myself before I started this thing. And, um, . So what I decided to do was to try these different things and write a book about it while I was doing it and, and, and do illustrations. So that's what I did.

Jill:

I, I, number one, I love the way you write, but I love the whole idea of. Writing this list of things that, how you might want to spend this adventurous new hour that you've gifted yourself with, that's exciting. And to, to make it this new thing. Getting out of the routine and, and trying these things and, and maybe even breaking it up with to a number of those things to sketching and walking and, and things like that. I, I think, um, it's kind of an, I, I get to list

Danny:

that. Uh, yeah. It's almost like if somebody gave you an extra year on your, , you know, what would you do with it? Would you just like keep working and, you know, doing the usual things? Or would you say like, wow, this is like a cool thing? I mean, you know, I, I, I think there's, so the funny thing about technology is just to go do it. Slight aside. We have all this technology that's saving us time, right? And yet we have no time. Like, cuz technology's also figuring out ways to fill all that time that it saved us, you know? So take it. Take it back, you know? And again, if you get up at six in the morning or you get up at five in the morning or four in the morning, whatever it is, if you get up and you spend it wasting, making crap, just drawing stupid, horrible drawings that you then throw away, throw 'em away before everybody else gets up, nobody will ever know. You know, try it for a few days, see what happens. Yeah.

Jill:

And, and do it for me, it's so important to put off the dopamine from social media after. After I do something that's gonna fill my soul, because that's such a hollow reward and doing something creative, even if it's reading something that's really inspiring. Is it just, again, it starts the day. I love the effervescence. There's effervescence that you carry the rest of the day with you. Yeah, and

Danny:

even if you're, if you wake up groggy, believe me, if you're doing something that's really cool and you're really excited, , you won't be groggy. You'll, you'll, and you won't be cranky either. You'll go get into it and do it. So,

Jill:

and with a list like you, you have a choice. You go, oh, okay. I'm groggy today, so I'm gonna go for a walk.

Danny:

So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I did a lot of fun things. I, I spent an hour watching my son's turtle., I felt guilty. He had, he had, he had this turtle. I felt kind of, it was like sitting in an aquarium all the time. I just felt kind of bad about it. So I took it out and, uh, I just spent an hour watching what it did and drawing it. It was really cool. So suddenly I never felt bad about the turtle again. Um, I, I went for a walk with my dog in the park and I thought a lot of times I'm just like trying to rush my dog home. Like, go, come on, do your business. Let's get home instead. I said to, Do whatever you want and I'm gonna see where you go and I'm gonna try and understand like, how are you seeing this walk? So each of these experiences, it just, none of them were essential, but they all just kind of, they made my life richer. And years ago that I did this thing, I still remember those experiences and they were just, and I think they're

Jill:

essential. I think they are essential. They mean life nicer. You've got a book out

Danny:

of them too. There you go. So, uh, alright, so now we're gonna get to your questions in a sec, in a se uh, in a segment that we call, what's your problem? What is your problem? Alright, Jill. So here's, here's a few problems that we've, that people have shared with us. Um, this is one from Susan and she says, Oops. Let me make it a bit small. She says, how do you explain to others how happy you are by yourself doing art and not hurting their feelings, that you don't need them for fun and happiness? We really can be happy with our bestie sketchbook. Companion two, ti two. Timing your family with a sketchbook. What, Jill: oh, wait, you? Danny: Sure. I would, I think, look, I think a lot of times. When we're off making art, we, we don't necessarily let our loved ones know what it means to us. What we do is we show them the results. I made this thing, you know, and they say That's nice. Or I honestly have a lot of people write to me and say, my husband saw what I was doing and he told me we thought it was terrible and it was a waste of time. And I think, you know what? You have bigger issues than, than your art making. If that's the case,

Jill:

you need some boundaries there.

Danny:

Yeah, yeah. But I think, I think if you can explain and say, This, it just means a lot to me. It's, I feel really good about it, and frankly, I can use your support. Um, you know, I don't really, I'm not, I'm not, I don't, I didn't marry you because you were an art critic. Um, but I do want you to help me to live my best life, and this is part of it. So if I go off and disappear, I'll come back happier and better. We've, we've brought that up a few times, but basically, you know, let them know what it means. I think we don't have that convers. and, and

Jill:

make something for them. If they're your bestie. They really, they, they love stuff. My my friends do anyway. When you've made something, you don't have to make everything for them. But I think, I think that's giving your power away and I think in. Maybe both of those instances have other friends that are really excited for you and other husbands. So other husbands. Danny: Yeah. Well, I hope that, I hope that that's an answer because I think, I think honestly being forthcoming about it, cause we, we tend, like we were saying before, we tend to be, you know, we're not, we don't defend. And protect our inner artist enough, right? So we allow, we allow the people to run rough shot over it because we do as well. You know, so I think we have to say, you know, we have to be a bit more assertive about it and explain to them what the benefits would be, maybe even to them. What would be the benefits to you if I've done this thing? So, um, here's this question from Kristen. She says, I have some ADHD task paralysis, or I have the time, but I just can't make myself do the task. Do either of you have this or have ideas on how to break out of it? So she, she has the time, but she can't. She's too, maybe too perfectionist about it. I, I know I have ADHD too. I know exactly what she's talking about. It feels like you are. this current that you can't get out of. And, uh, your, your concentration is fractured. The, the first thing I'd ask Kristen, is, has anything worked for you? Because usually there are things that work and we're just focused on what doesn't work. Mm-hmm.. And the other thing is, um, I do things in between things. I realize that I, I have this so. There's this paradoxical thing where you make a list of everything that you think you're supposed to do and then you don't do any of it., you do the other thing that you really want to get to, um, but also getting support from somebody else, having somebody else there, doing tasks at the same time you are really helps me. I am holding the space for that person, so it's easier for me to hold the space for myself to get to the things I need. get to. So

Danny:

it's also possible you have a bit with these big lists of things to do, and those lists can become overwhelming. Like, how do I, where do I even begin on this list? But I think if you just say, you know, just begin something. Let's just take a thing and listen. Do it. You know, that, that it doesn't have to be the perfect thing. But so often, momentum and action are such powerful forces to get you to be more productive. Start doing a thing. And then it will make the next thing easier to do.

Jill:

It's, and give yourself credit for what you have done, because usually we are doing a lot and we're not giving ourselves any credit for it. When you go back, okay, what I ha, what have I done? And it's usually something and when you give yourself credit for it, then you've. created a momentum and you can push off a bat rather than, I'm not doing anything, which usually isn't true. That's

Danny:

interesting. Um, Robert Crumb has a contrarian question as we would expect. He says, should art feel like a sacrifice? Most things worth doing. Require it. So in other words, if it's too easy, is it not worth doing? I don't know that most of us have that problem, but, and, and perhaps, perhaps he's responding to the fact that we are saying, you know, it can be easy, it can be a five minute thing here and there. It doesn't have to be a big deal. And then he's saying, well, is that, does that, is it not worth anything? If that's the case,. Jill: Oh, I, I think anything run into a wall and there are sacrifices and you do have to persist to get through them. And if you're not running into that wall, um, I think you're in denial, , because, uh, I lower the pressure to begin, but there are always stages that require sacrifice and. My, my house is a really good example of sac sacrifice cuz I sacrificed cleaning I've ever have since college. I went through college roommates cuz I was like, I'd much rather do my art than clean up. And it was like, okay, bye . So I, I sacrificed roommates and neatness so, I don't know if that's what he's talking about. Well, I think also what we, I think what also what we were describing was, um, a certain aspect of art making for people who don't, can't even begin. You're not, you don't want to make a sacrifice, you want to just start. Right. So, so if you overthink it and you think of, you know, I need to really, um, You know, this needs to be a major thing in my life for it to be worth doing, then you'll never begin. But the fact is that if you Too much pressure. Yeah. If you do begin and you begin in an easy way., then you'll start to see how important this is, because it'll become habitual. So you start to say to yourself, you know what I like? I need to brush my teeth. I need to, you know, go for a run. I need to draw. I need to just make this part of my thing. And when you do, then you get to the next stage where it actually becomes something. You know, deeper, more important. But I think if you can't even begin, because it needs to be deep and you can't even a lot the time to being deep, then you, you, you're, you're stymieing yourself so much that you can't even get going. I think it's, look, it's like exercise. There are people who, who, you know, train for a marathon and that's why they're running. And so they're pushing themselves more and more and more until they can run a full marathon. But then there are people who just run every., their time never changes. They never get any faster. They never spend any more time doing it. But they also know that if they didn't do it, it would, you know, be a hole in their life or a hole in their health. So I would say just look at it that way as something that you can just. Fit into your life. You don't judge it harshly. You don't have massive expectations. And then if you, by doing it that way, you start to allow yourself to do it, then the next stage becomes, okay, now I'm an artist. Now I'm thinking of myself that way. Now it's an essential part of me. Now let's take it to the next level. Let's, let's do something more profound. So I think that that's, W you know, that's

Jill:

to find the reason you wanna do it. I do it for fun and escape and reward and

Danny:

Exactly. That's what we were talking about earlier. Be harder than it is. Yeah. Right. It doesn't have to, you don't have to, again, you don't have to get a gold medal. Um mm-hmm.. Yeah. Um, alright, let's see if we have any other questions here coming up. Um, uh, Bob asks, how do you coach people not to worry about creating Perfect. I think we just talked about that a bit, but let's go into that more deeply.

Jill:

You, you understand that trying to make perfect art, number one isn't possible, and number two, Perfectionism and fun. Have a hard time occupying the same space, so go for fun. And no, I, I think we have to get out of delusional thinking that we can immediately make something that looks really good and allow yourself to be a bad artist. You have to be a bad artist before you're a good artist and know that that's part of the prerequisites to allow that. and to go for the fun. And know that when you're going for the fun, you're in practice. And when you're in practice, you get better and better. So

Danny:

I would also say too hard, it does sound like you've got your drum kit there. Um, but I would also say who wants to make perfect art? Who wants to look at perfect art? It's not as interesting.

Jill:

Sounds, sounds kind of lame. It doesn't have the mystery or the, it doesn't have the energy, the mystery or the story that imperfect art has. That's,

Danny:

yes. So I would say, yeah, I would. Unless you're perfect yourself. And if you are perfect yourself, then you can, you won't need our any, any advice from us. But it's more interesting to have imperfect art made by imperfect people that reveal their imperfections so that we can all identify with it. There's nothing worse than coming across somebody who just draws so unbelievably well, and you look at it and you say, You know, you're in awe, you know, you're worshiping at their altar, but it's also not really that inspiring cuz it's kind of awkward. Makes me anxious. Yeah. Yeah. And you go like, oh God, that's, that's what you're supposed to be doing. Um, yeah, I don't know. Nevermind. Yeah. Um, let me, there's, there's one here from not Magda that I thought was interesting. Um, she says, should I take my sketchbook to school? Most of the day I'm at school and it's where I'm the most creative, but I'm afraid that someone will judge my drawings and I can't take any better tools just to pencil or a pen. I have a lot of issues with what she's saying there, but why don't you sniff

Jill:

that? I do too. I don't think we have time for all the issues I have for her., Danny: not, not issues with of the things I think that you're thinking of, I mean, I, let's do it in reverse order. I can't take any better tools. Just a pencil or a pen. I don't know. I've spent most of my life just drawing with a pen, so me, me too. Yeah, that's, there's no, I don't think you, I don't think you need to sort of show up with, you know, canvases and all that and airbrushes and stuff like that. So don't, don't worry about that. But I would say, should you take your sketchbook to school, absolutely. Have your sketchbook with you at all times. That's why I, for many years, have used small sketchbooks. I have a sketchbook that's the same size as my.. Okay. So where I can take my phone, I can take my sketchbook and I open it and I just draw whenever I have time. So if you are feeling you're most creative there, awesome. And if you're afraid that other people are gonna judge your drawings, do it anyway. So what? I'm gonna do it anyway. Don't, don't show them. Don't show them. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Don't give your power away if you like it. That's important sometimes. Exactly. We're not our own audience, so draw stuff. And you're not gonna have your audience around you anyway

Danny:

sometimes, but Exactly. And, and yeah. And I think the, the people who are judging you drawings badly, a, they're probably not very good. Judges B, who really cares about their opinion. And you know, I would also say, When somebody judges your drawings, the way to begin is by saying, this is what my intention was with this. This is why I did this. So if they look at it and go like, eh, the eyes aren't really right, and you go, well, that's not really what I was going for. Here's what I was, here's what I was working on. You know, within that framework, would you judge it? But here's an experiment. Take your sketchbook school to school with you for one day and see what happens. And then if that all goes well, take it another day and see if people judge it, you know? And, and maybe if they do, judge it. Just say to yourself, today, I'm gonna open myself up to being judged by people. My sketchbook just this one day, and I'll forget everything that they said and see what happens. You know? I bet you they kept fine about. Yeah, screw you. This is my schedule.

Jill:

Those eyes, those eyes aren't right. Just go so. Either or yours., Danny: what do you got? What do you got? Tell me what you did. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not, it's, it's not about other people. This is about you. It's about you living your life. And the fact is, yes, most people are not thinking about you. They're not interested in you, they're not paying attention. It doesn't matter. So, so as long as you don't draw attention to what you're doing, they're probably never gonna say anything. And if they., most of the time they, they don't, they're not trained to be a helpful critic of your work. So this is your thing, a modern art museum and , those people don't care what people think. It's like everything

Danny:

is art. She says, I'll take my sketchbook tomorrow. All right. Excellent. And, uh, she also says, I deleted social media months ago and I've never been happier. So. Good. Good, good. Next. Good, good. Next. Delete your YouTube. No, don't, don't, don't do that. Don't do that.. Um, yeah. She also goes on to say, I have that problem with my sketchbook, that I made it like a portfolio. All the drawings are detailed and colored and just perfect and it's hard for me to start now. Just relaxing and doodling and sketching. Okay. We'll do the hard thing. Give you permission. Do the hard thing. Permission to do that. Yeah, exactly. So. Alright, good. Well, I think we are out of time. We've had a final time doing this. Hopefully we've solved some problems for. Um, at least for ourselves. And, uh, this was, this was fun. I think this format's working better, feels more under control. Yeah. I feel like we can breathe. We're able to get through it. Um, I hope it was valuable to you. If you're listening to this and you say, boy, I would really like to, um, have them address one of my questions, just write to us podcast sketchbook school.com. Send it to us podcast sketchbook school.com. Just write to us and, uh, we. See if we can get to it next time. But in the meantime, or come and join us here. Join us here on YouTube. Um, we've had a lot of people here who are enjoying themselves chatting with us, so, um, we'll see you then. Thank you for joining us, Jill. Any final parting thoughts? Go do

Jill:

stuff. Have fun, find time. I

Danny:

like it. Bye.